Does this band need any further introduction? Not really, yet there are a lot of new fans who might not know about the backgrounds of this band. Immortal started in 1991 (founded by Abbath & Demonaz Doom Occulta, and no, they are not brothers in a familiar way) and have now released 7 official albums. Meanwhile they have become one of the most important Black Metal bands. On the basis of support for their last album ‘Sons of Northern Darkness’ they were – again – on the road in Europe and VM was lucky enough to interview them at No Mercy in Tilburg (April 1st). What started as a brief interview with Abbath & Horgh (we hoped for half an hour) ended in a great talk about Immortal, their drive, Heavy Metal and all for almost two hours. Most of the interview comes from Abbath, yet Horgh really participated too, often nodding to Abbath’s statements. Enjoy…
Reading Iscariah’s statement on the Nuclear Blast website of March 25th we can sense the following things: 1) It is completely Iscariah’s own decision, and 2) 2 The split is on a friendly base Is this correct? What more can you add to this?
Abbath: Well, we have plans to kill him, you know…(great laughter) This kind of life is not for everybody. For Immortal this life (performing on stage – John) means everything. It has a great deal to do with the extensive touring (in one row), which became too much for Iscariah. That is his decision, but no one will hold me and Horgh back, so he had to make that decision. Yes, it was own decision.
Horgh: Last year we had only 3 shows live. Right now we are very hungry to get up on the stage, and we’ve had this perfect opportunities for a European tour (the current No Mercy tour) and the States (the upcoming tour with Manowar).
Abbath: We can’t let those chances pass by just because the bassplayer wants to stay home with his kids.
(Neithan: detail; Horgh and Abbath do have kids too, Abbath’s son (lets call him Abbath junior) will become 8 in June this year)
Well, touring is part of a musicians job, right?
Horgh: well yeah, it’s a job, yet…
Abbath: This is not only a job; it is more than a job. It is our fuckin lifestyle. You know… (long silence). It is a part of Iscariah that we had never seen before. He definitely was the right guy. Yet we are a touring band. We have to play live, meet the fans, meet the people we need to see. We are conquerors, and conquerors never stay at home!
When you see that Iscariah’s departure was announced last week and yet the tour goes on, this must not have come to you as such a surprise.Where did you find the new bass player?
Horgh: Well, in december last year I was touring with the band Pain (Peter Tägtrens side-project apart from Hypocrisy) and there I met him. Saroth was playing the bass during that tour.
So Saroth is the name of the new bassplayer. Tell us more…
Horgh: Well, he had been into Immortal for years and he is very dedicated, so I mentioned him to Abbath and said maybe we could try him. That’s it..
On the remark that Immortal had now become an international band because of the Swedish nationality (Saroth is from Norrköping) Abbath says it doesn’t matter, because Immortal has always been an international band.
Abbath: We now know that he is the right bass player for us. We know how to pick our people…
What will mean Iscariah’s departure for the music of Immortal. From interviews you and Horgh (musically the main composers of the band) seemed to are really influenced by the (Heavy) Metal bands from the eighties, where as Iscariah was more into the Black Metal bands. Is that perhaps the reason that the Immortal sound has gone from pure Black Metal to a mix of Heavy and Black Metal?
Abbath: Well, of course there was a difference in age between Iscariah and us. Horgh is the oldest in the band (apart from Demonaz, who is of course still involved in Immortal). Iscariah was much younger.
It all started back in 1990. At that time the you had only Venom and Mayhem, but for the rest the scene was dominated by Death Metal bands, like Immoliation, Carcass, Entombed, Morbid Angel,and so on. The music scene from today misses that rock ‘n roll feeling, and there is no metal without rock ‘n roll. We have that roots… We believe that the music should do the talking, and that the show around it has to do to the music. It is the complete atmosphere, it is a whole. Iscariah didn’t have this kind of roots.
Demonaz didn’t have this roots too originally by the way. In the beginning he was the extreme metallist. I was the imagist, the melody maker…
Nowadays, Immortal is a real team of Horgh and me, and of course Demonaz. Together we have this perfect team effect; Horgh has his wonderful thing and views, I have mine and so does Demonaz. That all together makes Immortal…
Iscariah’s departure was a kind of premature decision. He didn’t pick up the chances there were; You know Iscariah, he is a great guy, he’s still a brother, but we feel he quitted too early. We now had the feeling that he would be ready to get involved in the song writing.
That is a pity, but his influence never showed up in our music. The doors were not open to him, mostly due to himself. He didn’t find the lock so to speak. But in the long term I think that this all will be the biggest pitty for him, not for us as Immortal.
Although not mentioned on the album, Horgh is already part of Immortal since may 1996 and on Blizzard Beasts (1997). Yet Immortal is still very much regarded as Abbath’s and Demonaz’s band. Nowadays Horgh and Abbath write the music and perform life, where as Demonaz still works on the lyrics, so I would say Horgh is at least equally important to the band nowadays. Apart from that fact of the line-up, you now have a new bassplayer; how big are the possiblities of adding a second guitarist, especially since the Heavy Metal influences have become a bigger part of your music?
Abbath: Well, Horgh would have been nothing without Immortal, and Immortal would have been nothing without Horgh. When he came came came into the band, I and Demonaz were struggling for years to find the wright drummer. It seemed totally fucking impossible. Touringwise it was fucked up; until that time we never made it wright. He was not used to playing our style (Neithan: Horgh comes from a Heavy Metal band called Heavy Duty, a title from Priest’s Defenders of the Faith – album), yet he caught on our music like this (snaps with his fingers).
Horgh: I was listening and playing to bands like Judas Priest, Motörhead and AC-DC and all those bands. I had a lot of respect for Immortal; they already had something that Ialways wanted to be part of. So when I was at work (Neithan: Horgh has been a detonation expert for 10 years) I one day saw their add in a paper, and I immediately called them up. Demonaz’s girlfriend took up and I told her I wanted to try. They were at a cabin somewhere by the sea to work on songs, yet they called back the same day…
Abbath: We really had given up hope on finding a drummer in or around Bergen, we couldn’t think of anyone suited for that job from our area. But I and Demonaz nevertheless tried one last resort in a local Bergen newspaper. Then his Demonaz’ girlfriend called, mentioned Horgh and I went immediately like “Yeah, we know this guy”. We never thought of him that he was occupied (which in fact he wasn’t). Well he has been in the band since then and it is great; he is still so motivated, he is always on time (30 minutes or more early) for rehearsals.
Some times later we start talking about the scene in Bergen and it shows that both Abbath and Demonaz had seen Horgh in action with his former band Heavy Duty in 1989 where they were impressed by Horgh’s perfect immitation of the drumwork of Dave Holland on a specific Priest track, and later they had talked about it, but never thought of Horgh because they associated him so much to Metal. After that I wanted to tell Immortal that since ‘At The Heart of Winter’ Immortal has moved away from the underground. Abbath immediately responds by asking me what underground is; like non-quality? I try to explain that it has to do more with the kind of riffs and arrangements/compositions they use since ‘At The Heart of Winter’. Abbath has a special view on that…
Abbath: You know, when you mean no more underground, is like saying that we have become a known band. You know Piledriver?
I start to scream “If you’re not a metalhead…” and the three of us scream “You might as well be dead, we are the metal inquisition!” Here the interview becomes really surprising and more giving insight to what metal is according to Abbath than every structured question I had ever thought of… Especially when I mention that I thought Piledriver was kind of a joke, a parody on the typical metal lyrics of that era. Abbath stands tall:
Abbath: No, Piledriver definitely was no joke, no way! When you hear how the music is played, that can never be done in such way when it is a joke. They are serious, though they never were taken serious. But you just can’t do a fuckin album like that without being serious! At least when they did that album they must have been serious, afterwards I don’t know. We love to listen to Piledriver before going on stage!
Piledriver has given us something extra. Piledriver is a totally unknown band, we got this record and definitely that attitude and atmosphere contributed to what Immortal is today. Apart from the known influences (Bathory, Slayer, Celtic Frost) Piledriver definitely had a great influence on us just because of that.
After speaking a bit about all metal (quote “Halford’s Resurrection is more Priets than Priest itself”) I try once more to ask about the possibilities of adding an extra guitarist, just because all the classic Heavy Metal bands that we were discussing during that conversation had two guitarists. So how big is that chance?
Horgh: Well, on the one hand we always have liked this three-piece construction… but there is always a possibility we will attract a second guitarist.
Abbath: I have thought about it many times, even in the old days (with Demonaz on guitar). I feel that now I have taken Demonaz heritage, but often I think/thought “damn, we should have a Zakk Wylde or a Trey Azagtoth in the band”, but on the other hand, I think it just wouldn’t be right for/as Immortal… If it happens, it happens. It would not change the music of Immortal, well, perhaps maybe better leads (Abbath laughs)
We go on about the topic of guitar playing. I say that Immortal with virtuosal solos somehow would not be Immortal, just like Slayer. No offence meant (I promise Abbath he may kick my ass afterwards), but you’re not a lead guitarist like for instance Yngwie Malmsteen. Although Abbath admires him and likes to listen to his stuff (especially the solos); his favourite guitarist is Manowar’s Ross the Boss.
Abbath: He has such a great feeling, to his leads. It is very obvious to hear that he is a self tought guitarist, same as for instance Ace Frehley. They never went by the book. I have been playing for years now. For me the feeling/soul I put into my music is what counts. It comes from the heart, from the stomach, not from the book.
Okay, I have the basics now. Perhaps I can now start build in some virtuosity, now that I have/master my own style. But I won’t overdo it…
What about the stage names; what do the names the band members use stand for?
Abbath: Well, in the first place it’s pretty much a freak of nature kind of thing… We didn’t want names that actually meant something, but the names should express our evil side, as we believe that there is a dark/evil side in all of us. Not in a schizophrenic way, but names that take us away from every day’s life/occupations. That is the background about how we started thinking about our stagenames.
Horgh: Well, my name Horgh is somehow derived from my real name. I won’t tell you that name (Neithan: he does, yet I have to promise him that I won’t betray it), so it has nothing really to do with some kind of primal scream (an idea I asked). By the way Abbath, weren’t you about to call yourself Demonaz?
Abbath:No, no…. OH YES, that’s true. I originally had the name Demonaz…it just popped up from my mind…and then Demonaz came into the room and said “No way, that is my name!!!” And later I made up Abbath. Funny thing is that many people think or say it is derived from Sabbath, yet that has completely nothing to do with it. I found that out later when people spoke about it. I even thought about names like Blackthorne….
Horgh: Maybe I should change my name to Varg; cause Christian is not a good name (Neithan: laughter all around)
Finally it seems that Immortal are having a major breakthrough. In what way has the fact that you always did your own thing contributed to this?
Abbath: Well, in all those years we always did what we felt was wright. Back in the nineties everybody was into Death Metal, yet our heart was not there. We were not that desperate for success, what we do is a life to us. In September we’ve been around for twelve years now with Immortal. The reason that we are here today, and still going strong, is that we are true to ourselves!
We have not sold out to struggles within the band. The spirit has always been there. We love each other as brothers, we believe in the thing we are doing, it is our life.
An issue in Black Metal. Big bands are often regarded as being sellouts. There is a lot of complaining about Mayhem’s direction on “Grand Declaration of War”, Dimmu Borgir and Cradle are often called sellouts, and now also bands like Marduk and Immortal get criticism. Do you bands talk about that among each other or does it bother you?
Horgh: What a laugh… I feel we have our feet truly on the ground. We love to do our rehearsal, play the music we like to hear, we give it to a record company and they give it to the people. And then it is up to the audience. If they think we are sellouts because we do the things we like, they have to deal with it. It is not a problem for us. They should make up their own decisions.
Abbath:We have made a foundation of what we have become. Our home is the stage, all around the world; Bergen is our home base, yet the stage is our home! That is why we have to go there, around the world, to check our legions, our sons and daughters of Northern Darkness (Neithan: by which Abbath means the Immortal fans worldwide). It is our goal to give them what they deserve.
Although I appreciate and love for instance Bathory…and Darkthrone, as they have a similar live policy as an act…that would definitely not be Immortal. Immortal is live!
When the deal with Osmose happened the opportunities for signing to a new label were there. In the light of Cradle of Filth signing a major deal, and one Norwegian band (I have forgotten the name) signing to EMI Norway, was that an issue for Immortal; although you finally signed for Nuclear Blast?
Horgh: At the level Immortal is at this point, Nuclear Blast is the perfect label…We now have a good distribution, also in the USA.
Abbath comes in from the bathroom and starts talking about reunions, yet then goes on on this subject…
Abbath: Well, we would never sign to a label like EMI or something. We now have both a great deal and also a great dialogue with Nuclear Blast. With Nuclear Blast we can reach out to all our fans in the world. They can now go to a record store everywhere in the world, they don’t have to order it anymore. It is wrong for a band like Immortal to don’t have the right distribution, because we are messengers of the right shit.
Of course we have absolute artistic freedom; that is a main issue. I mean, yes, we were into negotiations with other labels, yet Nuclear Blast draw the longest straw.
I have read somewhere that Abbath is working on a solo-project. What can you tell about that?
Abbath: No, I am not busy with or working on a solo-project. Yes, I do have some stuff which is not fit for Immortal, it is good stuff, we’ll see. Maybe one day.
What can we expect? Is it Heavy Metal; or perhaps even dance music, or reggae?
Abbath: GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE!!! No, just wait and hear. I know I’m a bit unpredictable, just wait and see. It is not gonna be Immortal, yet (after a long silence) it is kind of linked… It is like with Zakk Wyllde kind of thing, you will recognize that it is me!
Now, some time after the release of Sons of Northern Darkness, how do you look back on it…
Horgh: Well, there’s one song I am not completely satisfied with. Do you know ‘Antarctica’? It is still a great song, yet… Abbath and I both thought it was too long, yet… Yet Demonaz completely freaked out on Antarctica.
Abbath: Yeah, that one and ‘In My Kingdom Cold’; afterwards we still have something like great songs, yet they could have been better. Some of the arrangements and riffs of those two songs have been wrong for quite a while you know, and I and Horgh feel that this should not happen again, so the next time we will go to record something, we will make sure that we will everything together. I really thought they were ready.
Horgh: For example, don’t you think that the beginning of ‘Antarctica’ is too long? I think the first part of the song is too long, yet the second part is great. We just didn’t find the balance in those songs. We love the arrangement and the lyrics of those songs, yet we don’t have the right feeling to those songs, something is missing in our opinion. Yet we like to hear him, just not love to hear them, which is the case with the other songs.
Abbath: Yet only me and Horgh know those two songs could have been better. You feel like you’re ready when going into the studio, yet when you are in the studio, you suddenly kind of miss something. We did the best we could. It is like with ‘Blizzard Beasts’. After this time I sometimes get the question “if you had the opportunity; would you redo the songs of that album?” and I go “NO FUCKIN WAY”. Don’t fuck up with the history!
We have though once thought about a re-recording of ‘Winter Of The Ages’ from that album, because we feel that one is the most fucked up, just to put it on a Japanese pressing…
At that moment we are disturbed by the tourmanager Bobo who has some more interviewers outside the dressing room, yet Abbath tells him to wait. Everybody has to wait until this one is finished. Bobo says that he will get pressure from Nuclear Blast. Abbath replies that he prefers one great interview face to face; this one is for the fans, not for the masters!. Talk about their astistic freedom… I promise not to take more than 15 minutes, which will become eventually some extra 45 minutes.
In what way is the band happy with its current success and the sales of the albums?
Abbath: Happy? What makes me happy is my son…. And what me and Horgh and Demonaz have achieved in all this time, especially me and Horgh. When you look at the struggles we’ve had, the difficulties with Demonaz’s arm injury, and how we got out of that situation. That is what makes me happy! It has never been mental, we always chose the right people.
What makes me happy is that we can tour for two months now; that is our life.
Speaking of touring; how did this tour in the States happen; was it on request by Manowar, or by the label Nuclear Blast.
Abbath: No, we got the offer from Manowar… That is why they changed/postponed their tourdates a bit.
Horgh: We wanted to finish the European dates, so that why the US tour starts a little later. We had some offers, of which one was a Danzig tour. Yet just before we had decided what offer to take, came the offer from Manowar…
Abbath: Manowar is a very interesting band… We all think so. Joey de Maio was one of my heroes in the old time. We did about three gigs with Manowar in 1999. They (Eric and Joey) were nice guys actually. They liked our melodies and our stuff.
The package is very interesting… They are the heroes/kings of metal, and we are the demons. And the demons will kick their ass. We have something extra to add for the American tour.
Is it perhaps too because Black Metal is not that great in America, and this tour might open doorways to you?
Abbath: Well, it is a great package, and Manowar should headline, and they will, yet they invited us to play 60 minutes with the complete stage; backdrops, sidedrops, full stage, everything…
Horgh: I think we will draw a younger crowd. Perhaps not as many fans as Manowar will do, but we will certainly draw some extra crowd.
How will the Manowar/American fans react to corpse paint?
Abbath: Well, we did some shows already in America & Mexico, although that tour (the US part) got fucked up due to the organizer of some gigs, we were surprised how many people showed up at our gigs. My first experience with the American audience? (Neithan – makes up an American accent): Hey man, where the hell have you guys been the last 10 fuckin years, we waited for 10 years for guys to show up. The audience there is fuckin A!!!
Finally I ask them about the Photoshopped pictures I took from the internet and ask about their comment…
Horgh: We love it, it’s great. I love what they’ve done.
Abbath: How can you survive without self-irony? If you did this to Manowar they’d probably sue you. Yet we are not the heroes, we are the demons of metal…. We know who we are; people on the outside can make up their own mind. This only shows we have charisma doesn’t it?
(Neithan – Abbath points at the basketball picture): You know what this means? Everybody has a demon inside, yet they need Abbath to show that. Look at the fear at their faces…
Immortal always try to look at things different than others, so if other people want to make fun of us, go ahead. We don’t mind. They will laugh at it first, we will have the last laugh. And although we may be demons; we are not evil… The reason for that is because we do this kind of shit. It gives the balance and adrenaline for us. Some people just don’t get the right stimulance to control themselves, to get rid off their demons (in a figurative way of speaking). We do! So they fuck up somehow. It has nothing to do with religion, but those who can’t find the balance with their inner demons will lose, and we are winners!
That should also go for our fans, our sons and daughters of northern darkness; perhaps it may help them to get a positive view on life, a bigger view on life. Get some strength to carry on. Music is a drug, and we want our music for everyone to be a drug! Let the music fuck you up! Off stage I am relaxed…
Finally Horgh asks me what I think of their album; well, the review is put right next to him so I give a short summary, and too that Immortal and Slayer are two of my absolute favorites. At that time Horgh reveals that Immortal will be playing together with Slayer at this year’s Graspop. He mentions that it was finally arranged the day before.
Horgh: Although the other bands were complaining about the relaxed easy audience in Antwerp we got a real great response. It was announced last evening after a stage by the organizer of Graspop, and the crowd was enthousiastic like a storm.
That concluded the end of a very long interview; last statement perhaps for the fans?
Abbath: DIE HARD!!!
Thank you very much Abbath and Horgh for a great talk and Bobo for his patience.
